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  • Night sights and WML necessary?

    A lot has been made regarding night sights and if there are really any benefits and for wml also. For the average person who has a ccw, do you find that they are necessary? For what it's worth I use a hand held light and fiber optic sight. Thanks.

  • #2
    My carry guns have fiber optic front sights, lights and sometimes lasers attached, Identification of your target is extremely critical in high stress situations. A nice bright white light attached to your firearm will light up the target against any iron sights you have just fine. They make some very compact ones these days, so concealing them is no problem. I also carry a small but powerful flashlight and a knife for my EDC, in case the power goes out, or if there's cheesecake.
    My posts are for general educational and informational purposes only. What you do with this information is your responsibility. I encourage you to seek out professional instruction. Nothing replaces in-person training with a qualified professional to ensure you learn properly and train safely.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Coch View Post
      ....or if there's cheesecake.
      Coch, this is clearly the main reason.

      Original poster (OP),

      I don't believe a weapon mounted light is necessary if you have a handheld flashlight, but it sure doesn't hurt to have a WML, too. I've never been in a gunfight, so our SMEs can correct me if I'm wrong, but if I were, I'd want to be able to use both of my hands if necessary (as opposed to one hand on a flashlight and the other holding my firearm).

      Comment


      • #4
        If I had one special wish it would be to change the Terminology of nights sights to low light sights because like coach says , it’s critical to identify your targets in a low light situation and that being the case you should have some source of light on your weapon or on you .. Remember as soon as you turn on your weapons mounted light your night sights are gone, your light turns all sights into a black silhouette So does it really make sense to buy those night sights ??
        My posts are for general educational and informational purposes only. What you do with this information is your responsibility. I encourage you to seek out professional instruction. Nothing replaces in-person training with a qualified professional to ensure you learn properly and train safely.

        Comment


        • #5
          I love night sights on Glocks! They are more durable than the stock plastic sights, and in a low-light (not darkness) but subdued lighting, they are the difference between seeing your sights and hoping your sights are on. As Scotty Reitz says "Hope is not a tactic", So proper gear is a good idea. A large percentage of self defense shootings occur in low-light, subdued lighting, or in hours of darkness, where you can see the bad guy (remember he's usually pretty close) and you can identify if he has a weapon, but you just can not see your flat black front and rear sights on his dark colored T-Shirt. Having taught numerous low-low light classes and training evolutions, I can say that students with night sights or lasers have a much better chance of successful hits. You can't align what you can't see? I do strongly recommend a hand-held white light for target/threat identification. Weapon mounted lights are a separate issue, and I do see many people in LE and MIL circles not leaving home without them. I have one for my home defense gun as well. From a CCW Standpoint, I have seen some of the newer compact weapon lights being used in conjunction with custom kydex holsters that still conceal very well. You have to look at the totality of circumstances when deciding what gear you are going to run. LEO, MIL, CCW, Home Defense, etc. What is your overall defensive plan, and do night sights fit into it well? I am a fan, and have them on 95% of my guns. -Bill
          My posts are for general educational and informational purposes only. What you do with this information is your responsibility. I encourage you to seek out professional instruction. Nothing replaces in-person training with a qualified professional to ensure you learn properly and train safely.

          Comment


          • #6
            Really depends on your situation. If you're in a large city and have street lights, are rarely out at night and only out during limited hours of the low/no light time or the day, a WML may not be necessary. Conversely if you live in a rural area with no street lamps and you get low/no light during the winter months which may require you to have a decent WML. So it depends on a few things.

            Beyond that, every CCW pistol should have decent night sights. I prefer ameriglo for price and overall functionality.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Coch View Post
              My carry guns have fiber optic front sights, lights and sometimes lasers attached, Identification of your target is extremely critical in high stress situations. A nice bright white light attached to your firearm will light up the target against any iron sights you have just fine. They make some very compact ones these days, so concealing them is no problem. I also carry a small but powerful flashlight and a knife for my EDC, in case the power goes out, or if there's cheesecake.
              Hahahahaha ... Cheesecake... Stahhp

              Look... ID your target before you shoot. Use sights and lights that allow you to do this effectively in all situations.

              Night sights are cool, but like anything else they're an OPTION... in case you don't have a light ..
              Last edited by AVRDefense; 06-03-2019, 12:45 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Angry Smurf View Post
                A lot has been made regarding night sights and if there are really any benefits and for wml also. For the average person who has a ccw, do you find that they are necessary? For what it's worth I use a hand held light and fiber optic sight. Thanks.
                OK, after participating in numerous discussions like this over the past 16 years I'll share some of what I've learned: The consensus of opinion among gunmen who use, or have used, attached tactical lights is this: A lone gunman, otherwise known as an 'unsupported shooter', should NOT use an attached light on his gun. (Unless, of course, his quarry is something like a raccoon!) A 'supported shooter', otherwise known as a member of a tactical entry team, is free to attach a weapon-light to his gun without any reservation.

                An attached pistol light will definitely slow down the draw; and, over the years, I've corresponded with, at least, 3 pistoleros who were either wounded or disarmed because they were working alone with a light attached to a handgun. The light's beam and the muzzle had to point together; and in each case the beam either missed the suspect on the first pass, or the suspect stood back and took aimed shots (sometimes with drastic results) at the source of the light beam.

                In fact there's a well known Glock customizer in Houston, TX who is also a retired police officer. He has posted that the last time he kept a light attached to his pistol a fleeing felon shot his gun right out of his hand. Later, after the felon was captured, the fellow admitted that he had aimed and fired in the dark at the source of the light that was looking for him. As this retired officer said, "That was it for me; I never again attached a light to my pistol." "I had to spend too much time working alone, and I learned this lesson well the first time things ended up 'going South' on me."

                I can also tell you that it is very difficult to track a moving target while using something like a superfluously bright Meprolight 'night sight' if that target is moving quickly through varying (mottled) shades of both light and dark areas. In the past I've been surprised to discover that a number of pistoleros I'll describe as 'serious shooters' have opted out for all black pistol sights like those made by Warren Tactical.
                ‘L‘Enfer C’est Les Autres, Et Les Choses Terribles Qu’ils Font!’

                Comment


                • #9
                  Great points everyone.

                  Arc Angel, I use a WML but I would never keep it turned on in a gunfight unless I had to.

                  I've learned to flash the light momentarily and immediately move in case someone begins to open fire at the light source.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Lots of good stuff on this post! I’ll put in my two pennies worth.

                    1. I use fiber optic sights from Dawson Precision on every pistol I own. Nothing else.
                    2. Sight alignment mostly comes from your body’s natural point of aim. Your eyes are just for verification and micro adjustment as necessary.
                    3. Lights deem Night Sights useless anyways, and then at that point there is too much information with triple dot tritium sight sets. Keep it simple.
                    4. If you have a WML you should most definitely have a handheld light. A threat may not always be a lethal threat. You can opt for a hand held until you are justified to draw a pistol. Maybe you’re just walking down a dark alley and want to light up shadowed areas as you pass by. You can’t just pull out your pistol and do so legally.
                    5. Lighting tactics are a thing and should be trained on. There’s ways to not disturb your natural night vision and use your lighting systems intermittently.
                    6. Shooting with only a handheld is not a simple task. Try this in training before dismissing WMLs.
                    7. You don’t know what situation you’ll draw the lottery ticket to be in. You’ll just have to prepare for any. It could be full daylight, but your situation happens inside a building with a power outage.
                    8. A great resource on lighting is Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics. He has excellent videos on the topic.
                    9. I like strawberry on my cheesecake.
                    10. #allthelumens. Technique is key.
                    My posts are for general educational and informational purposes only. What you do with this information is your responsibility. I encourage you to seek out professional instruction. Nothing replaces in-person training with a qualified professional to ensure you learn properly and train safely.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I should have just came here to have my questioned answered. 😆😆 great set of information and ideas.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Arc Angel View Post

                        OK, after participating in numerous discussions like this over the past 16 years I'll share some of what I've learned: The consensus of opinion among gunmen who use, or have used, attached tactical lights is this: A lone gunman, otherwise known as an 'unsupported shooter', should NOT use an attached light on his gun. (Unless, of course, his quarry is something like a raccoon!) A 'supported shooter', otherwise known as a member of a tactical entry team, is free to attach a weapon-light to his gun without any reservation.

                        An attached pistol light will definitely slow down the draw; and, over the years, I've corresponded with, at least, 3 pistoleros who were either wounded or disarmed because they were working alone with a light attached to a handgun. The light's beam and the muzzle had to point together; and in each case the beam either missed the suspect on the first pass, or the suspect stood back and took aimed shots (sometimes with drastic results) at the source of the light beam.

                        In fact there's a well known Glock customizer in Houston, TX who is also a retired police officer. He has posted that the last time he kept a light attached to his pistol a fleeing felon shot his gun right out of his hand. Later, after the felon was captured, the fellow admitted that he had aimed and fired in the dark at the source of the light that was looking for him. As this retired officer said, "That was it for me; I never again attached a light to my pistol." "I had to spend too much time working alone, and I learned this lesson well the first time things ended up 'going South' on me."

                        I can also tell you that it is very difficult to track a moving target while using something like a superfluously bright Meprolight 'night sight' if that target is moving quickly through varying (mottled) shades of both light and dark areas. In the past I've been surprised to discover that a number of pistoleros I'll describe as 'serious shooters' have opted out for all black pistol sights like those made by Warren Tactical.

                        So trying not to beat a dead horse here , but in relation to the gentleman that was shot at because of his weapon light, how many other encounters were successful because of the WML and helped the good guy survive and go home.

                        In other words , does anyone know of an incident where a WML helped a good guy ?

                        Thanks

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CactusManAz View Post

                          So trying not to beat a dead horse here , but in relation to the gentleman that was shot at because of his weapon light, how many other encounters were successful because of the WML and helped the good guy survive and go home. In other words , does anyone know of an incident where a WML helped a good guy? Thanks
                          Cactus, I’m sure there are many. The point is that when you’re working alone it’s safer and more functional to be able to point the light beam in one direction while your muzzle remains free to point in another. There’s something else, too: Many of the people I’ve had this discussion with felt that it’s a good idea if the pistol and the light aren’t being operated from the exact same position. It’s better if the light is out in front of your body while it is being supported by the pistol behind it.

                          Once again, I would be among the last to endorse moving around in very tight quarters or, perhaps, in the dark with my pistol held out in front of me. At close quarters I use a pistol in almost exactly the same way that I use a knife: I take Harold Jenks’ advice and I protect my weapon hand by moving around with my pistol tucked in close to my body—Which would, of course, be the very last place you’d want to hold a WML, correct!

                          It’s funny; but, now, it seems almost appropriate: I just suffered through another rerun of John Wick, Number whatever. Someone on here was advocating the merits of placing your support hand in front of your own (What shall I call it?) ‘principal target zone’ (your chest).

                          Know what? I couldn’t help, but, notice that Keanu had somehow managed to miss being taught this presumably worthwhile technique during all of the otherwise high quality CQB weapons training that he did for these films. So, I’ve got to wonder: Could John Wick, himself, have actually gotten it wrong?

                          If you’re working as part of an ‘entry team’ mounting a light on your principal firearm is a useful and relatively safe thing to do. If, however, you’re working alone I, for one, would definitely NOT want my pistol and my light locked into each other.

                          Someone also recently posted that it takes a lot more skill to use a tactical light, freehand. OK, maybe, but I’m not a member of that club; so I really don’t know.

                          Just so we’re clear: As far as I’m concerned, everyone is free to do whatever he wants to do with his weapon light. I’m not being inflexible about things; I’m only saying what I, myself, would (and on occasion) have done in years past in order to be able to reach my present ‘golden age’.

                          (You know, not anymore, but over the years martial training was an absolute way of life for me. So, . . . not being skillful with the usual ‘tools of the trade’ is something that, until very recently, I simply never experienced.)

                          There is another way to look at guns and WML’s, though: If someone isn’t genuinely adept with separately using a light and a pistol, together, then what’s he really walking around carrying? A functional weapon system, little more than a ‘badge of authority’, or some sort of personal ‘security blanket’ that makes him feel (but not actually be) safe?

                          Remember, there was a time in this country when an Applegate presentation (the old FBI crouch) was considered to be the only right way to draw and fire a pistol; but, hey, times do change!
                          ‘L‘Enfer C’est Les Autres, Et Les Choses Terribles Qu’ils Font!’

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks for the input.

                            I laughed a little on your "John Wick, number Whatever " hahahah. Those movies are getting out off hand. Hope it doesn't turn out like a Fast and Furious franchise with a new movie almost every other summer .

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