Self-defense ammo selection: what's best?

[GlockGuy]

I know this is a topic that has been discussed a lot just like the differences between sport and real-life shooting, but I wanted to hear from the experts.

What are your thoughts? I hear it's all about shot placement these days, but wouldn't a higher caliber bullet with proper placement be better? Would love to hear your thoughts.

[Tac Hyve Cadre]

Hey there Guy,
The trick to home/ self defense shooting is a lot like explosive breaching. Use as little fire power as possible to get the job done properly. Coladeral damage of any kind during a defensive situation isn’t going to be good for anyone. I recommend using light weight hollow point ammo. Stay away from heavy rounds like slugs or magnum loads due to over penetration. Your local law enforcement has been issued a specific type of duty ammo that you’d better believe was designed to minimize collateral damage by way of over penetration. Make sure you are training regularly and all your equipment is working properly. Try running a mag of the ammo you carry through your EDC. Better to be sure. FMJ ball ammo is the easiest thing to feed and cycle through any gun. Whatever you pick needs to be tested before you are.

THX for posting
-THC

[GlockGuy]

Thanks for the reply. It makes perfect sense. But when it comes to as little fire power to get the job done, how do we know? For example, all bullets can kill, but I’ve read that it usually takes an average of 6 shots to put someone down. I don’t know where this number comes from or what bullet type is used, but I would think if I was using a 45 and had to shoot someone, they likely would go down with less shots.

Do you feel it is more important to take someone down if needed faster with a larger caliber bullet, or to consider any collateral damage? If my life were on the line, I have to say i would care more a bout making sure the threat went down as fast as possible.

[Coch]

If you shoot a threat with any pistol caliber, plan on shooting them at least twice, this make quick, accurate follow up shots a necessity. 9mm has the advantage here, it has a good balance of power and light recoil as well as a higher capacity in most defensive handguns. As for ammo Federal HST and Winchester Gold Dot are very popular with guys who carry for a living. Whatever defensive ammo you choose, train with regular ball ammo most of the time, but shoot your defensive ammo occasionally to ensure good, reliable function of the ammo in your gun and confidence in your ability to shoot your defensive load.

[Tac Hyve Cadre]

GlockGuy,
.45 works great! I have quite a few of them in fact. Now as Coch was saying 9mm has less recoil and you can fit more of them in the gun. Which makes it a more user friendly option whiles getting after it. Over the past 10 years or so defensive ammo has come a long way. 9mm is producing results like never before. There has been talk of it being replaced for years. That’s just not the case, in fact LE is currently going back to it in droves. Now you are correct in regards to the importants of shot placement. With pistols it’s a must. 9mm is easier to manage during multi shot engagements and you have more of them to shoot In the mag. That being said I love .45 too. 9mm is the better choice in my opinon, but I still go back and forth based on my most intimate desires at any given moment......😐

Thx for posting.
-THC

[GlockGuy]

Thanks for the info guys!

[Fred Ruiz]

How many rounds does it take to stop someone from being a threat? Answer: As many as it takes.

The question is if the shots are effective or not. If you accidentally discharge your firearm during your presentation and place a round into the bad guy's big toe and he runs away, then that was an effective shot. You win.

I will give you an alternate perspective though on what I do. I shoot a high number of rounds per year for competition. Speed and accuracy is the name of the game. In order to have a faster follow up shots, competition shooters mess around with what's called Power Factor. They dial down the powder charge in the round to the perfect setting so they are able to shoot faster. Less bang means less energy which means less muzzle rise which means quicker sight acquisition which means sooner trigger pull. Power Factor = Velocity (fps) x Bullet Weight (gr.) / 1000.

In competition I shoot a 147gr. 9mm moving at 900 fps. This equates to 132.3 Power Factor. My pistol (G34) has tuned down springs for this. The result is a soft recoil impulse.

For my carry gun, I follow the same formula with a G19. I carry Federal HST Micro which are 150gr. at 900 fps. This equates to 135 Power Factor. To account for this I reduced the recoil spring to a 15# Wolff spring on a solid stainless steel uncaptured guide rod. The result is very similar to what I normally train with.

Now, understand that I'm not taking into account terminal ballistics. Mostly because I simply don't care. The only thing I care about is putting as many rounds on target as I can in a very short period of time. That is the only thing I have control over. I have no control over the mediums that the bullet will pass through which can affect expansion and penetration.

[AVRDefense]

How many rounds does it take to stop someone from being a threat? Answer: As many as it takes.

The question is if the shots are effective or not. If you accidentally discharge your firearm during your presentation and place a round into the bad guy's big toe and he runs away, then that was an effective shot. You win.

I will give you an alternate perspective though on what I do. I shoot a high number of rounds per year for competition. Speed and accuracy is the name of the game. In order to have a faster follow up shots, competition shooters mess around with what's called Power Factor. They dial down the powder charge in the round to the perfect setting so they are able to shoot faster. Less bang means less energy which means less muzzle rise which means quicker sight acquisition which means sooner trigger pull. Power Factor = Velocity (fps) x Bullet Weight (gr.) / 1000.

In competition I shoot a 147gr. 9mm moving at 900 fps. This equates to 132.3 Power Factor. My pistol (G34) has tuned down springs for this. The result is a soft recoil impulse.

For my carry gun, I follow the same formula with a G19. I carry Federal HST Micro which are 150gr. at 900 fps. This equates to 135 Power Factor. To account for this I reduced the recoil spring to a 15# Wolff spring on a solid stainless steel uncaptured guide rod. The result is very similar to what I normally train with.

Now, understand that I'm not taking into account terminal ballistics. Mostly because I simply don't care. The only thing I care about is putting as many rounds on target as I can in a very short period of time. That is the only thing I have control over. I have no control over the mediums that the bullet will pass through which can affect expansion and penetration.

The problem with tuning down the felt recoil by changing the springs is you are more likely to induce FTFs. That's not the proper way to compensate bad shooting technique.

The OP simply asked us about shot placement and caliber. Look, if you send a single round home into the neck or tbox of some poor *******, it's usually not going to matter much what size round that was. He's having a bad day immediately.

9 mm is just as effective as .45 if you take one to the face. Learn to handle your weapon. Aim for vitals. The rest will work itself out

[Fred Ruiz]

The problem with tuning down the felt recoil by changing the springs is you are more likely to induce FTFs. That's not the proper way to compensate bad shooting technique.

The OP simply asked us about shot placement and caliber. Look, if you send a single round home into the neck or tbox of some poor *******, it's usually not going to matter much what size round that was. He's having a bad day immediately.

9 mm is just as effective as .45 if you take one to the face. Learn to handle your weapon. Aim for vitals. The rest will work itself out

The springs are tuned down because the ammo load does not produce as much recoil energy. In tens of thousands of rounds, a FTFire or FTFeed has never been an issue in my personal experience. I only offer this concept as an alternate approach to the subject by focusing more on the ability to put more well placed shots on a target. It works for me, but may not be for everyone.

I completely agree that it is NOT a proper way to compensate for bad shooting technique. In fact, there should never be a compensation or substitute for bad shooting technique. Sound shooting fundamentals is always recommended. You nailed it in the last sentence-- do your part and the rest will work itself out. I completely agree!

[AVRDefense]

The springs are tuned down because the ammo load does not produce as much recoil energy. In tens of thousands of rounds, a FTFire or FTFeed has never been an issue in my personal experience. I only offer this concept as an alternate approach to the subject by focusing more on the ability to put more well placed shots on a target. It works for me, but may not be for everyone.

I completely agree that it is NOT a proper way to compensate for bad shooting technique. In fact, there should never be a compensation or substitute for bad shooting technique. Sound shooting fundamentals is always recommended. You nailed it in the last sentence-- do your part and the rest will work itself out. I completely agree!

Solid. Yeah bro. And just to be clear i wasn't in any way taking any sort of aggressive posture at your response. One thing I love about this community is simply sharing information (usually with the caveat of "this works for ME, give it a go if you want" lol).

It's hard to give people advice when they ask such a basic question without much context. My reply is usually a question ..

[Fred Ruiz]

Solid. Yeah bro. And just to be clear i wasn't in any way taking any sort of aggressive posture at your response. One thing I love about this community is simply sharing information (usually with the caveat of "this works for ME, give it a go if you want" lol).

It's hard to give people advice when they ask such a basic question without much context. My reply is usually a question ..

Never thought that! Love the community and here to grow and share my personal knowledge and experiences. There’s much to learn from everyone. I’m looking forward to more topics with you, bro! Good stuff!

[Myles]

Appreciate the insights, Arc Angel. Some really good points!

[Arc Angel]

I know this is a topic that has been discussed a lot just like the differences between sport and real-life shooting, but I wanted to hear from the experts.

What are your thoughts? I hear it's all about shot placement these days, but wouldn't a higher caliber bullet with proper placement be better? Would love to hear your thoughts.

Actually I do think a majority of effective pistol stops are made as a result of accurate shot placement, and nice tight groups. In my opinion, using a larger caliber pistol serves mainly to increase a user's own chances of survival.

As for myself? I carry, and have long carried, one type of pistol or another. The type and caliber of these pistols has been determined mostly by those places in which they were carried: in the woods and fields, in town, or at home; but most of them have been in either 45 ACP, or 9x19mm. I do prefer, though, to spend most of my time carrying a Glock Model 21 (in 45 ACP).

This is one of them ~



Once in a while I'll carry a comfortable Glock Model 19(RFT2) in 9x19mm; but, darn it, as much as I like this pistol, I always end up feeling so naked; and my environmental paranoia quotient goes way up!)

Here it is ~



Yes, I do fire my 45 ACP pistol perceptively slower than a shooter with a ‘fast 9’; but I'm still every bit as accurate; and my bullets always seem to hit significantly harder and do more damage.

Quite frankly, I don't think I'm going to be changing pistol calibers anytime soon!